Ep. 37 - Demons and More
Download MP3Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Walking Together podcast. My name is Nick Adams. I'm here with Kyle Lewis Hey. And Jared Grantham.
Nick:Hello. This is the Walking Together podcast. And on today's episode, we're talking about Kyle, what are we talking about?
Kyle:Demons.
Nick:Demons. Alright.
Kyle:No. What else?
Nick:What else we're talking about?
Kyle:Not just demons.
Nick:Demons and more.
Jared:Yeah. Miracles.
Kyle:We just found our episode title.
Nick:On today's special ones.
Kyle:Demons and more. For 3
Nick:payments of 1999, you could have those demons exercised.
Jared:We have specific pair of cloths. We've prayed over each of them.
Kyle:Oh, man.
Nick:Sorry, guys. I also wanna read a question that was submitted, couple weeks ago, and we're gonna try our best to answer it.
Kyle:Yeah. And actually, that's a kind of a hint hint, nudge, nudge. We're we're running out of questions, so we're about to have to start coming up with topics on our own.
Jared:Yeah.
Kyle:So send us some more questions. Yeah. Alright. So this week's question is, we say that we are a people that hangs our faith on supernatural things. Then why oftentimes do we separate the supernatural from our daily lives?
Kyle:So spiritual warfare, demon possession, demonic oppression, miracles, etc. Do we wrongly believe that the dimension where we find ourselves is somehow more real than the spiritual realm that created the physical, not the other way around. So, kinda think how we wanted to tackle today is, talking about, like, the spiritual versus the the physical and, you know, typically in our daily lives, we, you know, we're taught to kinda look at the physical around us and not really examine or pay attention to the spiritual side, as much just because it's something that we can't see. So how how do you guys keep keep that in balance, for your own personal lives? Because, I mean and I'm just gonna admit right up off the front, like, even as a pastor, that's something that you that I struggle with.
Kyle:You know? You just go about living life and, yeah. Pray and everything, but sometimes you, don't credit enough, and I think we can also run the risk of, attributing too much spiritual stuff too. So how do you keep a balance?
Nick:It's, just kinda like with anything. Just because any job you have, any ministry you have, it can become tedious, repetitive. You can get in into a habit and so it's not, you know, being a pastor really isn't a whole lot different than having a different job.
Kyle:Right. You
Nick:can, it can be all consuming in in all the in the wrong ways. Having like, we talk about a lot about walking together, having people to remind you, to hold you accountable, is is a good place to have balance just in general. Yeah. Spiritually though, you know, out of the scripture, I'll look it up while somebody else is talking, I can't remember exactly where and how it's worded but just it talks about fixing our minds on eternal things. Mhmm.
Nick:And when you stop and think about that, you'll realize that I don't think about spiritual eternal things as much as the here now physical, but when I do it makes the here now physical less important. Right.
Kyle:It flips that perspective.
Nick:Thankfully, I get to get reminded almost every Wednesday when we go to do prayer, like, Jesus provided the healing, Jesus provides the way, and it's already provided. So just because you don't get physical earthly healing or physical earthly blessing doesn't if you're not thinking about spiritual things, eternal things, then those worldly issues are gonna drag you down, kill you. Just Right. That get you'll get imbalanced.
Kyle:Right. And that that's something that, you know, I've just in our conversation before pressing record, you know, kind of another reminder. And every now and then, I'm reminded to remember that, you know, spiritual stuff is the foundation for everything else. You know? You had mentioned, like, even creation.
Kyle:Creation was more spiritual than it was physical. There was spiritual before there was physical. And, you know, that is that way for everything. You know? It's just not to get all super, super sociological and psychological, but like, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Kyle:Right. You, You you all remember that? You all remember that?
Jared:You're gonna have to remind me about that one.
Kyle:So it's like you have your physical needs, and then it gets all the way up to, like, self actualization. Okay. Right? So but as needs are fulfilled and taken care of, you move up to the next layer. Mhmm.
Kyle:So, very first thing is, like, shelter. Gotcha. Right? But once you have shelter, you don't really think about shelter anymore. You know, whenever you get food source, you don't really think about food source anymore.
Kyle:Of course, you know, we've moved up a long way in that where we don't, you know, we're not a hunter gatherer society anymore, so we don't really think about that. You know? I go hunt and gather at the grocery store now. You don't have to make plans to go hunt for, you know, take a week long hunting trip to feed your family for the next 3 months. Right.
Kyle:But I think I think of that in the same way as, you know, how we see we've moved beyond, like, our spiritual foundation. It isn't just a second thought anymore. It's not we don't realize. We've skipped that layer that is the actually the foundation that everything else is built upon.
Jared:Yeah.
Nick:So that verse was Colossians 3, 2, and 3. Think about the things of heaven, not the things of earth for you died to this life and your real life is hidden with Christ in God for those of you that believe. And that just can pertain not just to heaven, not just to eternal things, but spiritual things, things you can't see Right. Which Paul mentions in several letters in the New Testament.
Kyle:Yeah. Jerry, do you have anything to add?
Jared:Yeah. You know, we were talking about what do people typically mean when they say the word miracle. So I know the first thing that comes to my mind is things that are related to the physical. We would say, someone being healed from, say, a terminal disease that wasn't given, you know, a promise of life. You know, someone that is, maybe injured in the hospital and needing a recovery, like, that's one of the the things that you would think about or even being raised from the dead.
Jared:Right? When we think about the miracles in the life of Jesus, those are the things that we see. But we would also say, you know, I I think we could probably throw into that the demon possession would be considered, you know, sort of a miracle. How many people did Jesus raise from the dead?
Kyle:Besides himself.
Nick:23? 2? I was gonna say 2 is Lazarus.
Kyle:I was gonna say Lazarus.
Nick:The boy. Was where the other 2 didn't have a name, really. They weren't named people.
Kyle:It was a little girl.
Jared:So yeah. So there's only, you know, 3 instances. And and one of the things that I, that I like, I think John Piper said was, you know, we, there's far less miracles in the Bible than you would realize, and there's probably far more miracles that take place in the world today than we even realize.
Kyle:Oh, yeah.
Jared:You know, when you think about all of the people who are, you know, serving in different countries, all the missionaries, churches, and things that are happening, There's there's probably miracles that are taking place. I mean, we we've all probably experienced financial miracles. I mean, in a sense, where where is this gonna come from? How I'm gonna do this? And then out of nowhere, you you get a check-in the mail.
Jared:Wow. You know, that's and there's other instances I think we could probably relate to. But, typically, we just seem to focus on the the other thing I think is, you know, when you look all throughout scripture, the old testament and the new testament, the idea like, if you especially if you go back and read the old testament, I mean, people are are really living by faith on God's promises. And, you know, was there more miracles in the days of Elijah or or than Moses? I mean, you know, if you if you kinda look at that and see it's we see glimpses of it.
Jared:But what we like to focus on a lot of times in the the church Christian world is what what took place in the book of acts or, you know, or other places in the New Testament and try to create that as normative. When what what that was serving the purpose for, specifically in acts is like the growing of the church, the foundation, and what Jesus left to the disciples, apostles, and the ministry that's taken place there in in order to further the gospel. Right? The instance we talked about is, you know, when you see Paul in Acts and, you know, a lot of things that are taking place, they're healing, they're walking by, he's speaking, take up your bed and walk, and boom. You know, you see this happen.
Jared:But then we also see, you know, when he writes to Timothy, and I think it's first Timothy chapter 5 where, you know, he's sick, and he's like, you know, take a little bit of wine for your stomach. And, you know, it's like, well, man, if if the things were the exact same way back then, why didn't you just speak to him and say be healed? And so, you know, I I think a lot of times, we try to make a normative things out, or they should be normative when maybe they're they're not as they should be. Right. That makes sense.
Kyle:Yeah. Yeah. No. That that makes perfect sense.
Nick:It helps, it helps me to write those things down.
Kyle:Yeah.
Nick:I'm not a I'm not a I wouldn't say I'm a very creative, literate person, but, journaling is something that I don't do it every day. I don't do it every week. When something happens that is not normal and I write it down, when things are happening out of my control or going through depression or or just feeling like you're getting the short end of the stick all the time, having that to go back to is like just like the the parables in the Bible, just like the those accounts of those things, and it's it's a reminder, like, God's still doing, God's still working. Yeah. God's still, you know
Jared:Yeah. I mean, when you look at what Jesus said in John chapter 10, he says in verse 37, if I'm not doing the works of my father, then do not believe me. In other words, the works are evidence that I'm in the father and the father is in me. Mhmm. I'm unique.
Jared:I am the son of God. This is true. Like, everything that was for that purpose was what? To point back to
Kyle:Right.
Jared:To God. Yeah. We we pray and as much as we'd like to see, and I think God can still you know, if if it's his will and his plan, you know, things probably happen. That's should I be alive breathing, having as many things as I do now? Yeah.
Jared:And and and the blessings. No. Right? Any of us. So if if God wants and is his desire and his will, it'll happen.
Jared:But, you know, everything that Jesus was doing, it was a point back. Right. You know? Yep.
Nick:I think I think you can get caught up in the a miracle is just a sign, right, to point you to something that Exactly. To point you to God. And And a lot of times you can get hung up on the sign because no matter how flashy it is, like, you can get or the person holding the sign. Like, that's you you put your faith in. And I think God will do something.
Nick:God will truly use somebody, and then I don't you don't know what it is, whether it's pressure, outside pressure from people, but they people want you to do it again and again and again. Right. And and then it turns into a whole another thing. Right?
Kyle:Yeah.
Nick:And instead of it just pointing to God, now it's pointing to you.
Jared:Right. Yep. Yeah.
Nick:So it miracles are are wonderful. There's a wonder of God. Right? But they're just a sign to point you to God.
Kyle:Exactly. I don't
Jared:know about you. I I just grew up I felt like in some in some bad teaching theology. You know, it's like if you had enough faith, if you prayed the right prayer, if it was eloquent eloquent. Sorry. If you you know, there's a certain formula you gotta have.
Jared:And you see it a lot in the word faith movement. Like, you know, well, it was just because you don't have enough faith that it happens. And so but when so I would go, this is just as a kid, I remember being like, alright. Alright. I'm a pray to God, the father, this time because he I mean, I've just been praying to Jesus, and that didn't I don't know.
Jared:He's busy. I mean, I I literally remember it as a kid, like, trying to okay. Maybe if I say the words and more eloquent like King James style, then he'll know I'm serious. And then meanwhile, Lord, father God, and I beseech thee. And and in the meantime, Jesus walking, he goes, get up.
Jared:So, you know, there's some bad bad teaching that I had to kinda get delivered of to think, you know, that I should have gotten or
Nick:Right. Yeah. We can again, you somebody will have a gift or get a gift given from the Holy Spirit and you're like, man, I need to do it like that person's doing it.
Jared:Yeah. Yep.
Kyle:So we've I mean, we've already kind of broached the topic a little bit, but with, with miracles and seeing spiritual and supernatural stuff. I mean, have y'all ever seen miracles? Ever experienced any?
Nick:Yes. Definitely. But going back to something Jared said, I believe there's there's different classifications or kinds. So what, I don't know how far you wanna go with it. I don't know.
Nick:Definitely experienced financial miracles. I've definitely heard and seen God do things that are not normal.
Jared:Right. Well, I mean, if we're classifying for the sake of, you know, the dictionary, a surprising and welcoming event that is not explicable by nature or scientific laws, therefore, considered the work of a divine agency. Almost
Kyle:thanks Miriam.
Nick:Almost every near about every week don't you hear about somebody going in for a cancer surgery and they go in and it ain't there?
Kyle:Yeah. He's there.
Nick:I mean, what is that? Right.
Jared:Yeah. Actually, yep. Absolutely.
Kyle:Yeah. So I mean, I'm same boat. What does that cause you to do though?
Nick:Well, it goes back to sometimes, I mean, being honest, like, sometimes we've made that normative. Like, we we talk about it casually sometimes.
Kyle:Mhmm.
Nick:Yeah. And it's like Yeah. Well, great. That's good. That's great.
Nick:Alright.
Kyle:Man, alright. You know, you got
Nick:We don't celebrate. We need you need to celebrate those. Like, you celebrate what's important.
Kyle:Right.
Nick:And sometimes those things are just kinda brushed or Right. I've I have it's you know, I've prayed for certain things and and they've happened. And I've prayed for certain things and they haven't. And it was a growing experience. So I,
Jared:a quick story. I'll tell you. I had about a, I don't know, $35100 miracle happened recently on this trip that we went on. It's totally a god thing how it all orchestrated and lined up. But for those who don't know, we were on a road trip with our family.
Jared:And, you know, basically, we ended up in a place in Colorado. Never been before. I had been working through this, application thing for us, like a pastoral thing. You know, it was kinda like a spiritual renewal counseling thing that we we did. And, and blessed us and our family financially in a way that we ended up in the town that it was in.
Jared:We've never been in on the day that it was supposed to happen, and those people actually had somebody to sponsor for us to go. And when we embarked on this trip back in, you know, June July, the the the thing the spiritual renewal pastoral thing was in November, and I I wouldn't even plan on being there in November. And it's crazy as we're as I'm filling out this application process, I mean, there's so many god moments throughout it, but the short version for the sake of this podcast is how, like, I literally in tears. Our family just blown away by how God worked this out. And he knew that even long before we were gonna be in Littleton, Colorado, of all places, that we'd be there on that day when it was supposed to happen, and God was gonna work out all details so we could go.
Jared:And I'm like, man, if that ain't a miracle, like, I don't know.
Nick:You saying that reminded me of something, that it's hard for me to tell, but, and I don't wanna make a long story short and try to try not to because I I don't know if the part of this blessed and embossed people, and I don't know if those people necessarily want other people to know that they were part of it. Right. But to make a long story short, we were helping some people because I had the ability and skills to do it, and I just took off of work and went and done it. And, it took 3, 4 days, and it was in a different state. And I went and and did it.
Nick:And this this couple had, you know, this kinda terrible thing happened and prayed about it. Had $2,000 in savings, but, they needed prayed about it and determined, we're gonna give them $1,000. Tried to make it, what do
Jared:you call it? Anonymous? Yes.
Nick:Anyway, they ended up figuring it out, but during the time all this is happening, it was it was during the time I'm going to school, just started a new job, kinda started over, Still trying to learn the heating and air thing, but know enough to know enough to help. Anyway, Chrissy had bunions. And and it's funny when I first when I used to hear that term, I thought like, oh, you got like big corns on the side of your feet. It don't it's a terrible a bad sound of words. Right.
Nick:But her bones on her big toes grew in Yeah. And dancing through the years and all that's taking ballet and all that stuff didn't help. Anyway, her feet had gotten so bad she would have trouble walking, especially if she didn't wear special shoes and get to the end of the night. And sometimes, like, I would have to carry her. Well, this surgery because we had kind of started over, like, we got catastrophic insurance deductible $7,000.
Nick:I'm flying with me. We ain't got. I don't know. I'm praying this whole, like, Lord, you're gonna have to do something because we don't anyway, these these people don't know this. About we did that in the summer, it gets fall.
Nick:This is months after. And, come home and there is $7,000 at my door in an envelope. Wow. And that's what pays to get Krissy's feet fixed. And, every time I tell that story, like, you can't you can't you can't make the you can't make it up.
Nick:You can't I couldn't even, you know, and for God to be that gracious and orchestrative Mhmm. Is just wild, you know. Yeah. And yeah. So there is times where if you would just have faith, like, God provides.
Nick:And there's sometimes when you don't have faith and God's just trying to show you, hey, if you would just trust me a little bit.
Kyle:Right.
Nick:And, you know, that was what was it? 3 or 4 years ago. But it was like, I don't and nothing ever happened to me like that. In that in that way
Kyle:Right.
Nick:I've gotten the the checks in the mail and those are all those are miracles. Those are blessings. But it was just like, It was a lot was a long time experience for me. Yeah. And it just it changed the blessing wasn't so much the $7,000.
Nick:It was great. We got Right. But it changed it changed mine and Christie's faith and made our marriage stronger, made our parenting better, made it made everything better. Right.
Kyle:Do y'all think that we talk about miracles enough then? No.
Nick:Because you're scared. You because it's like, I get emotional every time I tell that story because it is so I
Jared:think people are also afraid that, well, what if it doesn't happen? Right. Maybe, you know, there's that side of the whole thing.
Kyle:Well, see, so here here's the thing that I'm sitting here thinking about. It's like, man, I don't I hear so much about, like, we attribute bad things to Satan all the time. So getting into the demonic oppression stuff here in just a little bit, but, like, we I was joking with Nick. Nick said that his watch broke. I'm like, man, well, the devil broke your watch.
Kyle:Right? Like, man, we'll say that about little stupid stuff, but whenever god does something awesome, you know, we don't we don't talk about it enough.
Nick:You know what I mean? You're I don't know if it's because, like, you're scared maybe what if god takes it away? Or what if that, you know, a lot of times it'll be this happened to my grandparents. It's funny. I still got this newspaper and it's up on my garage wall to remind me of this.
Nick:My grandma had pancreatic cancer, Went through chemo, gone. Right? Did an article in the paper, pastor and his wife. Did a whole faith art. It was it was Yeah.
Nick:It was a cool thing. Normally don't put stuff on paper. Right?
Kyle:Right. Right.
Nick:About 2 months after that, it came back and just the blessing in that was it made me find my faith because Right. My whole family's faith was built off of my grandparents. Mhmm. And there's a lot of terrible things happened after that. But through that, everybody got their own faith.
Kyle:Yeah.
Nick:My mom, my uncles, my grandkid, like, everybody. It was a blessing. Yeah. But during that time, it was like we claim named it and claimed it, and then it happened, and now it Yeah. And it it may it makes you feel like a fool sometimes.
Kyle:Yeah.
Jared:There's a I won't say for second names, but there is a popular, I I guess you could say preacher. There's a popular person that does, pastoral ish work in the world. And, I'm I'm trying to you know? But my point is I'm not trying to be funny, but it was one of the name of the claim. It's a word of faith.
Jared:Yeah. You know, if you don't if you don't get healed, it's because you don't have enough faith. You don't you ain't praying, you ain't believing, you aren't so and so. And has been recorded to say that many times in his ministry. And his wife got cancer
Nick:Mhmm.
Jared:And passed away. And I remember what he said afterwards, you know, because it's like, how do you how do you say that one thing? Is it because and, you know, it's like, you know, God used that situation to help. I think it also helped shape his belief in his teaching Right. After experiencing that.
Jared:And a lot of times, you know, we want to feel good. We want to see the
Kyle:thing
Jared:and praise and all. And that's great when it happens, but when it what about when it doesn't happen? You know? What what about when that person's not healed or, you know, they don't come back to life or
Nick:Right.
Jared:Or they don't walk again or
Kyle:see. And that's something that I was just thinking of, too, is like the, Webster definition. Right. It was like it's a welcoming thing. Do y'all think miracles are always welcoming?
Nick:No. But I was just about to say, like, you have to remind me it's not about you. Right.
Jared:It's not
Nick:about Yeah. You getting credit or you being able to put your stamp on it or put your finger on it as to this is how I figured it out. Like, just like that my grandma going through pancreatic cancer and dying, the blessing was later. Right. And so at the time and only God can see that.
Nick:Like, God, you know, you can give me illustration. God God can see the parade from the beginning to the end and all the Yeah. Floats, all the things in between, and we can't. So
Jared:Yeah. Something that happened in the last couple years, a good friend of mine, his, his mom got cancer and passed away. And, she wasn't a Christian in her life growing up. So he said all throughout my childhood and my adulthood. And he said that she got cancer.
Jared:And she lived about 2 years, I think, year and a half, 2 years from the time. And he said she found God in a way that I had never experienced. That every time we we went there and talked to her, she was she'd been praying. She'd been reading her Bible. She got back involved in my son's lives, involved in family dinners, he said.
Jared:And she started coming to church with us. She got involved in church. She you know, basically her whole life. And, right before she passed away, she said, you know, if getting cancer was what got my secure for me to know Jesus and have my eternal life.
Nick:Mhmm.
Jared:That was worth every bit of it. Yep. And she said, you know, what did that look like before I had cancer? I didn't care anything about. And she said it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
Jared:And I was like, dang.
Kyle:See so and that's the thing is, like, we that's why I hate that. I actually hate that definition. A welcoming event. Yeah. Yeah.
Kyle:Like, man, sometimes a miracle was can be one of the worst things that's ever happened to you. And that's why I think it's just the irony in that we attribute things that we consider to be bad. We'll be the first people to accredit it to Satan, you know? And then he's like, I didn't do that. Right?
Kyle:Right. And so I think we can go ahead and jump into that next point that, the question was bringing up is like, so how do we consider, like, demonic oppression and possession and spiritual warfare? You know? Like, are those things real, first off? And, I think the answer around the table would be a resounding yes, but, b, you know, why are we either quick to a credit or discredit or, certain things?
Kyle:And I think some of it can be based on how we even view miracles. So since we've kind of talked about that a little bit now, you know, it's so going back to, you know, I was joking about Nick's watch and saying how will credit, you know, little things to Satan. Little nuisance things, right, to, like, demonic oppression. Yeah. You know, and, we're so hesitant to talk about So miracles.
Nick:Anyway For, explain the difference For people that's between possession and Yeah. Oppression.
Kyle:Yeah. I think that's best first stop. First step.
Jared:I would, I would say possession would be to inhabit Yeah. Within. You know, as we see through scripture, where different people had been demon possessed, that when the, demon was cast out, it went out of their, their bodies. Right?
Nick:Mhmm.
Jared:So that that resident, that inhabitants, that in control, I think I view you guys may have a different opinion, but I think oppression is more of an external outside force. It doesn't live within and control what you do, but tries to influence Right. In a sense what you do. You know, there's no, we have to use the Bible as, you know, truth because it is. There's no example in scripture of a Christian being possessed by the Right.
Jared:Right.
Kyle:Yeah. And I so I was actually gonna read John 1 because I think it it it points out it's a biblical principle to point that out. I'll go ahead and read, oh, first five verses of John 1, but it says in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning and all things were created through him. And apart from him, not one thing was created that has been created in him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Kyle:And that light shines in the darkness, and yet the darkness did not overcome it.
Jared:Yeah.
Kyle:So, I mean, so where there's light, there can't be the of darkness. Right? Right. Yeah. Residency.
Kyle:Yeah. I mean, so if if you've got the the light of Christ in you, if you have that life, that life that is the light of men, like, you can't be, inhabited. But surely, you can have the, demonic and
Jared:Well, we're influenced already by the Right. The world. Right? Right. Right.
Jared:And the world is e the world influence on us helps also to dictate and control our behaviors. Right. Do we submit to it or not? You know, second Corinthians 6 is an example that I think talks about, you know, with the true believer. When Paul's writing, he says, what harmony has Christ would love or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever or what agreement has the temple of God with idols?
Jared:For we are the temple of the living God, Just as God said, I will dwell in them and will walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And I think as God resides and we are his people and went to it. I don't think those 2 things can indwell together. Right. Yeah.
Kyle:But they can't. They can't. The house divided against itself cannot stand.
Jared:That's a that's a NC State ECU reference. Right?
Kyle:But, but yeah. So no. I think that's a I think those are good definitions for, oppression and possession. I mean, but so let me ask y'all. Have y'all ever seen, like, demonic oppression or possession.
Kyle:Yes. You've seen both?
Jared:I know well, I'm as you're saying that, I know a possession for sure. I'm sure of oppression as well, but, there's somebody that our family knows that, is. And we we've are very, very confident, could share you numerous stories of how we experienced this, but for the sake of not trying to give out that person, through conversations and also interesting prayers. Prayers around that person calls things to happen and come out in another person. It's it's crazy.
Jared:And this has happened on multiple occasions. And so based on this person's life and what they did as a child, as an into their teenage and adult years, Yeah, I really think, and, and actually now that person in this in a mental ish hospital. So, yeah, it's wild.
Kyle:So would you say, just in your experience, would you say that, like, possession tends to you see more physical?
Jared:I I think definitely I think definitely physical. You know, we see in scripture, there's a lot of weird behaviors that happen
Nick:Right.
Jared:From that. Whether it's, was cutting one of them? Yeah. Yeah. It was cutting and and just, I think language, mannerisms and demeanors and just all the things that and I experienced a lot of that external.
Kyle:You'll see a lot more outlandish behavior, I think, with possession. Maybe not like back bending walking on off.
Jared:A lot of parents say they they think their kids are us they're just being normal. Right. Right.
Kyle:Exactly. I mean, but I I think that oppression tends to lend itself to less physical manifestations, but also to, like, people who are more oppressed than, possessed will still tend to have their wits about them. They'll still be able to articulate spiritual things. I think I mean, and I could be wrong because I've not experienced it a whole lot, but I think one of the things that possession would try to do would be to pull you away from spiritual things too.
Nick:Yeah. And I think that's a an identifier for me, and and the difference between the 2 is if somebody is possessed, when you bring up Jesus or when you bring up biblical principles or scripture, it is an immediate outlash
Kyle:And rejection.
Nick:Rejection of Yeah. Why it it and and the oppression is you you not being maybe willing to let go or have faith in in that area
Kyle:Right.
Nick:More than something controlling you outwardly.
Kyle:Right. Right. Yeah. And that's the thing is, like, it's kind of taboo to talk about especially in more Baptist circles. Right?
Nick:Well, you know But,
Kyle:like, it I mean, it's out there.
Nick:Deliverance ministry isn't normally in in on the top of the list there.
Kyle:Not b f and m 2000 approved?
Nick:Yeah. Not not really on top of the list there. But because it can be easily abused and manipulated and, you know, it's hard to know and read people's hearts all the time, but that goes back to miracles and and spiritual and physical and kind of what we've been talking about the whole time, like. Yeah. But I think you're deceiving your the devil wants you to not make a big deal about him.
Kyle:Right. Yeah.
Nick:And the Bible clearly tells us the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking to steal, kill, and destroy. And in Ephesians 6, when it talks about armor of God, you know, we've we've fought war against not physical things, but spiritual principalities and powers. Yeah. So to ignore those things is exactly what the devil wants you to do.
Kyle:Right. Right.
Jared:And the other thing is we all have subjective experiences. What that may make us think that because we're experienced this or we've seen somebody act this way or do something, that they're automatically Right. Yeah. You know? We we know somebody else, you know, that's close to us that is going through this right now with a family member, and they're try you know, that they've literally they've questioned that.
Jared:And, but, you know, we have to go back to what the Bible tells us, the information that it gives us that that indwelling of the holy spirit will not cohabitate with any forces of darkness. So if you are a true bull I would say I'd go as far as this. If you are a true believer in Jesus, you know him as your lord and savior, and you put your faith in him. If you have questioned that, you know, whether or not you are or somebody you know is, if they're a true believer, I would say they're they were not possessed. I would say they were probably there may be oppression from the out you know, external forces.
Jared:But
Kyle:I would
Nick:I think I'd you saying that made me think about, well, do I have any body in my life that is currently going through that or shows those signs or tendencies? And a lot of stuff with depression, you can if you just ask a person what tell me what your day looks like.
Jared:Mhmm. The time
Nick:you wake up, the time you go to bed. A lot of times you can pinpoint where the oppression is coming from. I'm isolated. I'm playing Call of Duty 8 hours a day. Yep.
Nick:I have dreams of space. So I I talked to a guy, yeah, and parents were concerned about him. Got him on the phone, and I have dreams about killing people. Well, what do you do? Well, I play Call of Duty and I, you know well, you know, you probably quit playing Call of Duty and
Kyle:Yep. Yep. There's definitely some influence there.
Nick:You know, for sure. So those things help in figuring out what to do and how to do it and and you have to humble yourself. Right?
Kyle:Right.
Nick:That's another biblical principle to be able to get past some of those things.
Jared:You know, there's a there's a balance of trade off of because we do know that the things we wrestle, we just said that scripture are not against the fleshly things. But we tend to over spiritualize, especially if you've been in it for a long time. Right. And so quick story. I still laugh about it to this day and the guy that this happened to, he, Andy, he we all we both thought it was funny.
Jared:But, anyway, we we were at this, conference. It was kinda like a youth fest or, what they used to call it, like a choir of the fire type thing. And, and our choir was, singing. And, you know, it was one of those things where it was a little more charismatic where it was kind of my upbringing, and you know, people would feel like they had a word that they had to give somebody. You know, that was kinda like a common thing.
Jared:They're like, you'd be you'd be singing, and you look out in the crowd, and you'd see a kid. You're like, oh, what? God's telling me to go tell this boy something. I mean, you know, just like and so that was practice quite a bit, not in some good ways. But, so there we're at this event and, and Annie's like, man, I'm sitting there and I'm looking this guy and I'm like, oh, man.
Jared:He's just guys just put him on my heart. I've locked eyes with him several times. And the Lord has just told me, he's like, he he's gonna get healing. I just I just feel like he's getting to get healing. And so he said, I walked down off that platform and I went to go pray with this guy.
Jared:I said, hey, man, is there anything that I
Kyle:pray for you for?
Jared:I was like, no. I don't think so. I think I'm doing okay. He's like, are you sure? He's like, yeah.
Jared:He's like, man, oh, lord. Just really I was out there looking at you. Just laid you on my heart. And the kid's like, man, I I don't I don't I don't really know. He said, well, okay.
Jared:Well, if it's cool, I just kinda at least just pray for it. And the guy's like, yeah. For sure. He says, I put my hand on his shoulder, shoulder, and I put my hand on his chest, and he's like, and I felt this device on his on his, under his shirt. And, he says, I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh man, this guy has a pacemaker.
Jared:Like he's got a heart condition and he didn't want to tell me. He says, so I'm like immediately. I'm like, God's just telling me this is it. He's going to be healed from this heart thing he's got going on right now. He's like, So I'm just praying.
Jared:I'm like, Lord, you know, I just pray, Lord, you just heal and you just said, I'm going on and on and on. And I just like confidence will happen, he said. And when we get done praying, the guy's like, Thanks, man. He said, I looked at that was how long have you had that this condition? He said, man, what are you talking about?
Jared:He said he said, how long have you had a heart condition? The guy, the boy said, I don't have no heart condition. He said, what's that? What's the device under your skin? He said he said, oh, man, this is glow into the dark necklace they gave us when we came into this event.
Jared:He said, man, I just put my put my head down and I just walk back up there. He's like, I couldn't think about nothing else. The rest is like, man, I just over like spiritualize this thing in my life. And he's like, we laugh about it to this day. So, you know, all that to say, like, that's a common thing that people people just sometimes tend to over spiritualize some things that are just forces of this world.
Kyle:Right. So I think the key encouragement or not to, you know, break out the DSM and go diagnose people with possession today, but, to really use discernment.
Jared:Right. Yep. Discernment is good. Yep.
Nick:Yeah. Just back back it up with with Bob. Bob will tell you everything you need to know.
Kyle:That's exactly right.
Nick:And if you don't know, then ask.
Kyle:Right.
Nick:And you'll find somebody.
Kyle:Amen. Yeah. Alrighty. Well, y'all feel ready to land this plane?
Nick:Yeah. Alrighty.
Kyle:Well, let's do it. Let's do it. Here we go. Let's cue the music. Alrighty.
Kyle:I'll thank you all for joining us today. This has been a fun episode. Thank you for, sending in questions, to this asker. And, again, feel free to send us your questions because we are starting to run out. We're gonna have to start giving you some of our own topics and ideas.
Kyle:But, yeah, you can do that. If you have any questions or topic suggestions, feel free to send them in to podcasts, plural, at gathering surf city dot com, or you can visit gathering surf city dot com slash podcast. It's really however you wanna do it. They'll both end up coming to us. But don't forget to go on, like, share, subscribe if you haven't already.
Kyle:You can do that at iTunes, Apple, Apple Podcasts. Spotify, Google Podcasts is no longer a thing, but, I mean, if you can still pull it up, review us there too. But whenever you're reviewing, just be sure to leave us 5 stars. You can tell us we suck, just as long as it's, we get the 5 stars. Really helps other people to see it.
Kyle:So, again, thank you all for joining us today. It's been an awesome time, and it has been a pleasure being able to share with you all some of these things and thoughts. Also, if you have any comments, feel free to send those too. We like any feedback that we can get. Y'all have a great and blessed day, and we will talk to you later.
Kyle:Bye.
